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jackn2mpu
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BFD3 demo - my thoughts

Postby jackn2mpu » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:14 pm

Well I downloaded the BFD3 demo and played around with it for a while. Took almost 30 minutes on what is supposed to be a 25meg download from Verizon FIOS. My thoughts and they're not good:

Confusing way of working - totally different than BFD2. Maybe if I hadn't had BFD2 and went straight to BFD3 that might change. As it is I would have to unlearn everything I learned in previous versions of BFD to use this new version. Not going through that.

Ugly gui. I know what I said before based on the pictures on the web and the BFD3 tutorial on Groove 3 (I have the all access pass so it's no expense for me as such) but actually working with it reaffirms my opinion. Hard on the eyes on my iMac which has the glossy screen. No option to change that out. Too much white and gives me a headache.

Cymbal swell modeling and tom resonance modeling - I don't get that. I mean I know what the documentation says they're supposed to do but still..... Cymbal swell modeling - with the samples used in the demo I can't hear the effect. If it's reason for being was to help with cymbal rolls (sticks or mallets) and make them more realistic - not working. And tom resonance modeling to me is just another type of bleed control, nothing more.

Limited kits and can't use your own existing kits in the demo limits my evaluation of what it would bring to the table with what I have. Without that - not good.

All in all there's nothing in the demo that makes me want to buy the BFD3 upgrade. Especially when also taking into account the download problems versus paying the extra $50 US for the flash drive option. Sure there's the aax64 bit support which is critical for working in PT11 but there are other options that allow me to use BFD2 inside PT11. On the low end price wise is Blue Cat MB7-2 or Patchworks, rewiring via Reaper or hosting BFD2 in VEPro5. Currently using MB7-2; the only thing I lose is multiple audio outputs from BFD2 into PT but that will be solved after the holidays when I get VEPro5 and I don't have to sue my workaround mentioned below. Some might talk about the new effects in BFD3's mixer or such but I don't use the internal mixer. For multi audio outs with BFD2 I'll do the drum tracks in PT10 and then import the audio into a PT11 session. A workaround to be sure and a bit bulky but it's another way I get to stay with a program (BFD2) I'm familiar with.
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Re: BFD3 demo - my thoughts

Postby purtington » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:32 pm

jackn2mpu wrote:Well I downloaded the BFD3 demo and played around with it for a while. Took almost 30 minutes on what is supposed to be a 25meg download from Verizon FIOS. My thoughts and they're not good:


Are you saying that's slow ?
I have a 60MB download speed and mine took just under 4 hours which I thought was pretty good for 37GB.
Since I have never downloaded anything of that size I had nothing to compare it with. How big is the demo download ?

Confusing way of working - totally different than BFD2. Maybe if I hadn't had BFD2 and went straight to BFD3 that might change. As it is I would have to unlearn everything I learned in previous versions of BFD to use this new version. Not going through that.


Like you I'd had BFD2 for 5 years or so years and went straight to BFD3
Obviously it's a different way of working, it's been redesigned from the ground up. I seriously think if this had been the UI for BFD2 I'd have figured out BFD2 quicker. The browsers and tabs give it much more fluidity once you figure out where things have moved to.

Ugly gui. I know what I said before based on the pictures on the web and the BFD3 tutorial on Groove 3 (I have the all access pass so it's no expense for me as such) but actually working with it reaffirms my opinion. Hard on the eyes on my iMac which has the glossy screen. No option to change that out. Too much white and gives me a headache.


I agree up to a point, I don't find it strains my eyes but BFD2 was undoubtedly sexier. I think Skot_FX mentioned there might be some colour options in a future update.

Cymbal swell modeling and tom resonance modeling - I don't get that. I mean I know what the documentation says they're supposed to do but still..... Cymbal swell modeling - with the samples used in the demo I can't hear the effect. If it's reason for being was to help with cymbal rolls (sticks or mallets) and make them more realistic - not working. And tom resonance modeling to me is just another type of bleed control, nothing more.


I haven't used either yet in any of my projects but the demo track for the cymbal swell demonstrates it very well I thought.
I got Tom resonance working during beta testing and liked it but wasn't sure if I'd use it or not. I need to experiment with it again I think.
I guess in a sense it is a form of bleed control and it's a noise that producers go to great lengths to get rid of depending on what style of music they're producing. It's quite subtle and time will tell whether I use if often, occasionally or never.

Limited kits and can't use your own existing kits in the demo limits my evaluation of what it would bring to the table with what I have. Without that - not good.


Your BFD2 and expansion kits will sound exactly the same in BFD3 as they did in BFD2 with the exception I guess that you can use, "cymbal swell"
(which you can't hear) on all cymbals. Not sure if you can use tom resonance on older kits but you don't like it anyway so I wouldn't worry too much about not being able to use your old kits in the demo :wink:

All in all there's nothing in the demo that makes me want to buy the BFD3 upgrade. Especially when also taking into account the download problems versus paying the extra $50 US for the flash drive option.


I know there have been a lot of download problems and I'm not sure if they're fully resolved yet but I had no problems whatsoever and I know for many others it was a painless experience.


Just out of curiosity, did you contribute to the BFD3 feature request that was circulated a year or so ago and if so what new features did you ask for ?

Steve
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Postby Drew_BFDTeam » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:01 pm

Actually in the grand scheme of things, there haven't been that many download issues. Most of which we have resolved one way or another.

Thanks for the feedback on the demo. We had a lot of people requesting tom bleed back in the day for BFD2, so that's why that feature got added. The cymbal swell tech might be a little limiting in the demo, because it only applies to edge articulations on cymbals and rides.

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Re: BFD3 demo - my thoughts

Postby jackn2mpu » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:13 pm

purtington wrote:
jackn2mpu wrote:Well I downloaded the BFD3 demo and played around with it for a while. Took almost 30 minutes on what is supposed to be a 25meg download from Verizon FIOS. My thoughts and they're not good:


Are you saying that's slow ?
I have a 60MB download speed and mine took just under 4 hours which I thought was pretty good for 37GB.
Since I have never downloaded anything of that size I had nothing to compare it with. How big is the demo download ?

Confusing way of working - totally different than BFD2. Maybe if I hadn't had BFD2 and went straight to BFD3 that might change. As it is I would have to unlearn everything I learned in previous versions of BFD to use this new version. Not going through that.


Like you I'd had BFD2 for 5 years or so years and went straight to BFD3
Obviously it's a different way of working, it's been redesigned from the ground up. I seriously think if this had been the UI for BFD2 I'd have figured out BFD2 quicker. The browsers and tabs give it much more fluidity once you figure out where things have moved to.

Ugly gui. I know what I said before based on the pictures on the web and the BFD3 tutorial on Groove 3 (I have the all access pass so it's no expense for me as such) but actually working with it reaffirms my opinion. Hard on the eyes on my iMac which has the glossy screen. No option to change that out. Too much white and gives me a headache.


I agree up to a point, I don't find it strains my eyes but BFD2 was undoubtedly sexier. I think Skot_FX mentioned there might be some colour options in a future update.

Cymbal swell modeling and tom resonance modeling - I don't get that. I mean I know what the documentation says they're supposed to do but still..... Cymbal swell modeling - with the samples used in the demo I can't hear the effect. If it's reason for being was to help with cymbal rolls (sticks or mallets) and make them more realistic - not working. And tom resonance modeling to me is just another type of bleed control, nothing more.


I haven't used either yet in any of my projects but the demo track for the cymbal swell demonstrates it very well I thought.
I got Tom resonance working during beta testing and liked it but wasn't sure if I'd use it or not. I need to experiment with it again I think.
I guess in a sense it is a form of bleed control and it's a noise that producers go to great lengths to get rid of depending on what style of music they're producing. It's quite subtle and time will tell whether I use if often, occasionally or never.

Limited kits and can't use your own existing kits in the demo limits my evaluation of what it would bring to the table with what I have. Without that - not good.


Your BFD2 and expansion kits will sound exactly the same in BFD3 as they did in BFD2 with the exception I guess that you can use, "cymbal swell"
(which you can't hear) on all cymbals. Not sure if you can use tom resonance on older kits but you don't like it anyway so I wouldn't worry too much about not being able to use your old kits in the demo :wink:

All in all there's nothing in the demo that makes me want to buy the BFD3 upgrade. Especially when also taking into account the download problems versus paying the extra $50 US for the flash drive option.


I know there have been a lot of download problems and I'm not sure if they're fully resolved yet but I had no problems whatsoever and I know for many others it was a painless experience.


Just out of curiosity, did you contribute to the BFD3 feature request that was circulated a year or so ago and if so what new features did you ask for ?

Steve
Almost a half hour for a 2 gig download is ridiculously slow; that's the demo size.

Color option maybe in a future update? Doesn't get it for me.

Yes I did contribute to the what would I want to see in a new version of BFD (BFD3) thread. Keeping the old kit view was one of those I mentioned. I think I might have mentioned something in relation to cymbal swell in that thread but like I say - I can't hear it in the demo program because of the limitations of the demo and I really can't hear it in the examples on the fxpansion page.
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Postby jackn2mpu » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:18 pm

Drew_fx wrote:Actually in the grand scheme of things, there haven't been that many download issues. Most of which we have resolved one way or another.

Thanks for the feedback on the demo. We had a lot of people requesting tom bleed back in the day for BFD2, so that's why that feature got added. The cymbal swell tech might be a little limiting in the demo, because it only applies to edge articulations on cymbals and rides.
If there aren't that many download issues then why do I keep reading about people having problems with the download of the full program? You say they have been resolved one way or another - they shouldn't be happening in the first place. If indeed fxpansion is/was using Amazon server space it should have been lightning fast and not take some users multiple tries over many days to do the deed.

IMO the demo was too crippled. fxpansion could have done a 1 kit, full featured time limited demo to properly sell the program. And let us try our own extra libraries in it.
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Postby gaheba » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:55 pm

My download of the full program took 14 hours if I recall! Nothing to do with Fx and everything to do with Australia's poor internet speeds (and not likely to get any better under current gov'ts intentions for the NBN :evil: ).
I have had some minor problems with the Licence manager - may have been user error - and I have been getting crashes, although that seems to be clearing up and I am definitely getting fewer crashes. (reminds me I have to update my support ticket!).
Yes its a different workflow and confusing - initially.
Yes the gui is a shock after BFD2 - initially.
Cymbal swell and tom resonance - noone is forcing you to use them - I didn't use all of BFD2's features and capabilities either so no change there! :lol:
Limited kits - its a demo?
After a couple of weeks orienting myself with BFD3, including asking myself if i would be better of staying with BFD2, I now wouldn't go back to BFD2 as a first choice at all.
Once you figure it out, BFD3 workflow is better - faster, easier. I am still a bit slow with it, but only because I am a hobbyist and don't get to spend 8 - 10 hours a day on it.
I didn't like the gui at all at first, but got used to it. I use a 27" iMac with BFD3 often fully extended - thats a lot of white and it is a bit much I agree. Buts it is in no way a deal breaker surely, esp since I am sure Fx can be prevailed upon to address minor gripes like this.
Your workaround for BFd2 sounds like a whole lot more hassle to me than to just go for BFD3 and deal with learning curve.
Is it really that big an obstacle?
Your expansion kits sound the same - sometimes I think they sound better! Sleishman is still my favourite kit in BFD3.
You actually don t have to "unlearn" anything. Instead look on it as learning a completely new bit of kit. The problem is ……?
YMMV.
I like my BFD3 :D

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Postby jackn2mpu » Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:13 pm

gaheba wrote:My download of the full program took 14 hours if I recall! Nothing to do with Fx and everything to do with Australia's poor internet speeds (and not likely to get any better under current gov'ts intentions for the NBN :evil: ).
I have had some minor problems with the Licence manager - may have been user error - and I have been getting crashes, although that seems to be clearing up and I am definitely getting fewer crashes. (reminds me I have to update my support ticket!).
Yes its a different workflow and confusing - initially.
Yes the gui is a shock after BFD2 - initially.
Cymbal swell and tom resonance - noone is forcing you to use them - I didn't use all of BFD2's features and capabilities either so no change there! :lol:
Limited kits - its a demo?
After a couple of weeks orienting myself with BFD3, including asking myself if i would be better of staying with BFD2, I now wouldn't go back to BFD2 as a first choice at all.
Once you figure it out, BFD3 workflow is better - faster, easier. I am still a bit slow with it, but only because I am a hobbyist and don't get to spend 8 - 10 hours a day on it.
I didn't like the gui at all at first, but got used to it. I use a 27" iMac with BFD3 often fully extended - thats a lot of white and it is a bit much I agree. Buts it is in no way a deal breaker surely, esp since I am sure Fx can be prevailed upon to address minor gripes like this.
Your workaround for BFd2 sounds like a whole lot more hassle to me than to just go for BFD3 and deal with learning curve.
Is it really that big an obstacle?
Your expansion kits sound the same - sometimes I think they sound better! Sleishman is still my favourite kit in BFD3.
You actually don t have to "unlearn" anything. Instead look on it as learning a completely new bit of kit. The problem is ……?
YMMV.
I like my BFD3 :D
The problem is learning a whole new way of working and I don't want to deal with that if I can help it. I know the kits are supposed to sound the same but what is the issue is what does BFD3 really bring to the table to make me want to buy it and put up with a horrible gui - not a thing. Tom resonance and cymbal swell modeling are the only really two new items. Sure there's new kits but no real info on what those kits are. DW Mardi Gras Black Sparkle is not a kit it's a shell decoration. What series is the kit - Collector's, Performance or what? What wood makes the kit? This kind of stuff is important to a drummer like me. And fixing the gui is not a minor thing.

Yeah it's a demo but other companies put out full featured demos. At least fxpansion could have let us use our own extension library kits to really evaluate the program. Who knows how they tweaked the kits to make BFD3 sound good? Let me try the demo with something I know how it sounds so I can make my own evaluation.

I would have been ecstatic just to have aax64 support in BFD2.
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Re: BFD3 demo - my thoughts

Postby purtington » Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:03 pm

Color option maybe in a future update? Doesn't get it for me.


I'm confused, you're complaining about there being too much white but you don't want the option to have different colour sets in the future ?
Perhaps that's not what you meant but that's what it sounded like.

Keeping the old kit view was one of those I mentioned. I think I might have mentioned something in relation to cymbal swell in that thread but like I say - I can't hear it in the demo program because of the limitations of the demo and I really can't hear it in the examples on the fxpansion page.


Not sure keeping the old kit view qualifies as feature request but I voted for keeping it too.

The more I thought about it and it's functionality I could see that it wasn't absolutely essential and in BFD2 I only ever used it as a means of accessing certain kit parameters. Now that those parameters can be more easily accessed via the modal and tech panels the old kit view really has little use for me and is quite superfluous.

To me this demo of cymbal swell is as clear a day, the fluidity and smoothness between the first and second sample is obvious to my ears and my ears are by no means the best. This is the demo I mean.

https://soundcloud.com/fxpansion/bfd3-cymbal-swell-demo-off-on



There are lots of other new features aside from cymbal swell and tom resonance, lots of improvements in the drum editor,
the browser is excellent and much quicker, the ability to create favourites lists I really like, some of the new effects are very good but I really want a pitch envelope (which Skot says it's on his to do list) Key mapping is a huge improvement over BFD2. Whether these are features that you were hoping for or will ever use doesn't make it a bad update.


Steve
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Re: BFD3 demo - my thoughts

Postby jackn2mpu » Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:11 am

purtington wrote:
Color option maybe in a future update? Doesn't get it for me.


I'm confused, you're complaining about there being too much white but you don't want the option to have different colour sets in the future ?
Perhaps that's not what you meant but that's what it sounded like.

Keeping the old kit view was one of those I mentioned. I think I might have mentioned something in relation to cymbal swell in that thread but like I say - I can't hear it in the demo program because of the limitations of the demo and I really can't hear it in the examples on the fxpansion page.


Not sure keeping the old kit view qualifies as feature request but I voted for keeping it too.

The more I thought about it and it's functionality I could see that it wasn't absolutely essential and in BFD2 I only ever used it as a means of accessing certain kit parameters. Now that those parameters can be more easily accessed via the modal and tech panels the old kit view really has little use for me and is quite superfluous.

To me this demo of cymbal swell is as clear a day, the fluidity and smoothness between the first and second sample is obvious to my ears and my ears are by no means the best. This is the demo I mean.

https://soundcloud.com/fxpansion/bfd3-cymbal-swell-demo-off-on



There are lots of other new features aside from cymbal swell and tom resonance, lots of improvements in the drum editor,
the browser is excellent and much quicker, the ability to create favourites lists I really like, some of the new effects are very good but I really want a pitch envelope (which Skot says it's on his to do list) Key mapping is a huge improvement over BFD2. Whether these are features that you were hoping for or will ever use doesn't make it a bad update.


Steve
What I meant when I talked about a possible color update in a future version and it doesn't get it for me is this: I don't go on faith that something like this will ever happen. It should have been in the original release. This patch it after it's out is bogus. Besides who knows how long fxpansion would take to do it? I mean they were way late with the release of BFD3 to begin with. Angus said back at winter NAMM 2013 that we would have aax64 bit support when we needed it and we didn't get it. So there's a history of the company not getting things out in a timely manner.

Favorite lists mean nothing to me as do any effects. Already said I never use them or the BFD mixer, preferring to use what I have in PT which is much better and more flexible. And it's confusing as hell what's in the Tech and Modal panels - should have been in one place and not split up in a way that makes no sense to me.

Then again anything I have to say negative makes no sense to the beta tester fanboys.
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Postby guitardom » Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:56 am

I dont know for sure, but it does sound like the demo makes it difficult to give it a "fair shake"

Were you a BFD1 user?? I was on BFD1 a couple years before 2 came out. That transition was HUGE!! Those 2 programs are light years apart. The transition from 2 to 3, I did not find that major in comparison. There are a couple things you have to figure out, but I didnt find it painful, just a bit of time. But experiencing the 1 to 2, I kind of figured things would be changed for 3 quite a bit. I find most of the changes wonderful to workflow. I dont have to jump pages everytime I want to do something. I actually do not like going back to 2 anymore.

The issues I had with the download were my issues. Didnt assign the download to the location I needed, and a couple little things. I dl'd it on release day and it was a few hours, but I guess It didnt bother me. If an amazon drone could have dropped me off the flash drive 20 min after purchase, I would have done it, but I was still running it later in the day. I also think we are really only hearing about the "problem" downloads and only they know how many times it has actually been dl'd.

The kit view is obviously one of the most heated topics. I see the idea of really wanting to keep it, but it is so limited in 2 as compared to what it changed to. It is just so multipurpose now in ways the kit view in 2 could never dream of being. It is far less cluttered and that screen real estate is being put to other uses. Considering you dont have to have all the not used extra kit pieces in view or in the mixer, also makes it that much cleaner. Dont have the bulky kit piece selector and the new method just BLOWS 2 out of the water. The workflow is just so much more improved.

Hopefully they will address the white background soon. They have made it clear it was put out as soon as they possibly could with many things still to come and fixed. Pro Tools 11 was the same way. Good or bad? I guess it depends on your point of view. Either you could have it to start working with it sooner, or you could just sit and wait with nothing in hand. At least if it is released, there is a LOT more feedback and problem detection being done that makes the next couple months of bug and other fixes more productive. Not a deal breaker in any way for me, but others may find it more serious.


Then again anything I have to say negative makes no sense to the beta tester fanboys.

I think this is a bit unfair because what you are saying is that you wanted 0 change. You just wanted BFD2 and thats that. You did not say anything good or positive about any of it, you are actually quite down and negative about every bit of it. Some of us have spent the time, found the good, and have been quite happy. Again, I havent really seen or heard such negativity from anyone who has been using the full version and spent some time learning it. Everyone seems quite happy as am I. [/quote]

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Postby jackn2mpu » Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:12 am

guitardom wrote:I dont know for sure, but it does sound like the demo makes it difficult to give it a "fair shake"

Were you a BFD1 user?? I was on BFD1 a couple years before 2 came out. That transition was HUGE!! Those 2 programs are light years apart. The transition from 2 to 3, I did not find that major in comparison. There are a couple things you have to figure out, but I didnt find it painful, just a bit of time. But experiencing the 1 to 2, I kind of figured things would be changed for 3 quite a bit. I find most of the changes wonderful to workflow. I dont have to jump pages everytime I want to do something. I actually do not like going back to 2 anymore.

The issues I had with the download were my issues. Didnt assign the download to the location I needed, and a couple little things. I dl'd it on release day and it was a few hours, but I guess It didnt bother me. If an amazon drone could have dropped me off the flash drive 20 min after purchase, I would have done it, but I was still running it later in the day. I also think we are really only hearing about the "problem" downloads and only they know how many times it has actually been dl'd.

The kit view is obviously one of the most heated topics. I see the idea of really wanting to keep it, but it is so limited in 2 as compared to what it changed to. It is just so multipurpose now in ways the kit view in 2 could never dream of being. It is far less cluttered and that screen real estate is being put to other uses. Considering you dont have to have all the not used extra kit pieces in view or in the mixer, also makes it that much cleaner. Dont have the bulky kit piece selector and the new method just BLOWS 2 out of the water. The workflow is just so much more improved.

Hopefully they will address the white background soon. They have made it clear it was put out as soon as they possibly could with many things still to come and fixed. Pro Tools 11 was the same way. Good or bad? I guess it depends on your point of view. Either you could have it to start working with it sooner, or you could just sit and wait with nothing in hand. At least if it is released, there is a LOT more feedback and problem detection being done that makes the next couple months of bug and other fixes more productive. Not a deal breaker in any way for me, but others may find it more serious.


Then again anything I have to say negative makes no sense to the beta tester fanboys.

I think this is a bit unfair because what you are saying is that you wanted 0 change. You just wanted BFD2 and thats that. You did not say anything good or positive about any of it, you are actually quite down and negative about every bit of it. Some of us have spent the time, found the good, and have been quite happy. Again, I havent really seen or heard such negativity from anyone who has been using the full version and spent some time learning it. Everyone seems quite happy as am I.
[/quote]Yes I was a BFD 1 user on my old Windows/Sonar system and never really got on with the program. I tried but it just didn't work out. Used Battery instead. Figured I'd give BFD2 a shot on my PT system and it's been going quite well. Zero change was not what I wanted - just wanted aax64 bit support in BFD2 - the rest of it is okay for me.

So I'm down on BFD3 - that's my issue and feelings and anyone that has a problem with that doesn't realize that not everyone likes everything that other people like. To me there was not one thing I liked about the BFD3 demo. If fxpansion had really wanted to sell it to people the demo could have been done better but I've said that before and it bears repeating. Sure people who bought the full version love it - why else would they have spent the money? I'm not going to spend money on something that I have doubts about hoping that after a while I'll fall in love with the program. Simply put - going by the demo it doesn't do anything that makes me want to buy it. If there were only more honest people like me (reviewers especially) maybe companies would pay attention to the criticism. Maybe my fault is being too honest - then again that comes from being a new Jersey resident.
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Postby Fenderchris » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:04 am

guitardom wrote: Considering you dont have to have all the not used extra kit pieces in view or in the mixer, also makes it that much cleaner. Dont have the bulky kit piece selector and the new method just BLOWS 2 out of the water. The workflow is just so much more improved.



Does that mean that it is possible to set BFD3 up to exactly match my physical V-drum kit size?

Can the display be flipped to reflect a left-handed kit setup?

I am surprised to read that there is currently no option to change the white background to different colours. Changing colours is just simple swapping of HEX numbers so it should not really be difficult to implement.

In my view it is a shame the the BFD2 kit page has been dumped in BFD3 despite many users (including myself) requesting that it be retained.

I must admit that I have not yet tried the v3 demo (I'm waiting for a current BFD2 issue to be resolved before I do - see the Exporting Grooves thread) but from what I have seen it is missing the nice kit piece images present on the BFD2 kit piece screen.
Last edited by Fenderchris on Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Nuendo 8.1.10 64-bit and Nuendo 10.2.0 64-bit, Windows-10 64-bit, i7 Quad core 2.67Ghz, 24GB Ram, Roland V-Drum TD-20X, BFD2 64-bit, BFD3 64-bit.
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gaheba
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:02 am

Postby gaheba » Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:43 am

The problem is learning a whole new way of working and I don't want to deal with that if I can help it.


Jack, in all honesty the learning curve is not that intimidating if you just buckle up and jump in. If I can do it any monkey can - seriously. I am a complete bunny when it comes to computers and software but I still get my way around and it still
opens up creative possibilities for me and thats the fun bit! Right?

what does BFD3 really bring to the table to make me want to buy it and put up with a horrible gui - not a thing.


The groove editor!! Its awesome and for me is itself all on its lonesome worth the entry price! Drum rudiments! Still learning that bit but....what a step up from BFD2.

The GUI is expandable. On my 27" iMac I can stretch BFD3 pretty much right accross the whole width of the screen - which is just beautiful for working on grooves and drum tracks.

I did not like the gui either at first. Like the others above have said, the loss of the kit view was a huge disappointment for me (I had voted for its retention), however it is fast fading into the background as a dealbreaker. More important is the improved workflow of the new layout.

The browser (for grooves, kits and instruments, and presets) - much better than BFD2 - more immediate, accessible, navigable.

The sound: this is somewhat subjective, but for me when I listen to one of my own presets in BFD3 then listen to the same preset in BFD2, the latter sounds somewhat muffled. Its kind of subtle, but the sound of BFD2 seems to lack a presence and punch that BFD3 has. Just my impression, not saying its the truth or anything. However if you gave me a desert island choice, I would pick BFD3. Its not a question of processing either, as I rarely do any processing in the BFD2 mixer, although that may change now.

Then again anything I have to say negative makes no sense to the beta tester fanboys.


Jack, there is nothing wrong with a bit of criticism and voicing your concerns. I get the demo doesnt work for you. So why not point out the problems and limitations of the demo constructively without all the blaming and faultfinding and sniping? You have an opportunity to contribute something to the development of BFD3 with your unique viewpoint - so take it. Your concerns with the demo doesn't have to be about being or saying something negative, insulting, or demeaning about Fx and other users does it? Make what you have to say a contribution, an offer, rather than an expression of some upset you have.

FWIW, I was not a beta tester. I am however an unapologetic fan boy - of both BFD2 and BFD3! That doesnt mean I dont have issues at times or get grumpy about those issues. I am still a fanboy and I still have issues at times. I take no offense or insult from that accusation!

If there were only more honest people like me (reviewers especially) maybe companies would pay attention to the criticism. Maybe my fault is being too honest


Actually, I think the issue here was that you havent really been honest at all. If you were just straight about both what works and doesnt work for you, your concerns would quickly and easily gain an appreciative ear. And you wouldnt have to snipe at other users.
Just saying. :wink:

Gary.

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purtington
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Postby purtington » Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:52 am

Does that mean that it is possible to set BFD3 up to exactly match my physical V-drum kit size?


I'm not a V-drummer but I'm pretty sure the answer to that is yes, There is the default kit which is, Kick, Snare, Hats, 3 toms, 3 Cymbals and 1 perc slot but if that's too many you can remove slots so in effect you can have a two piece kit if you so wish.

Can the display be flipped to reflect a left-handed kit setup?


I can be flipped to either drummer or audience perspective but I don't think that's what you mean.
I'm not so sure that can be done actually.

I am surprised to read that there is currently no option to change the white background to different colours. Changing colours is just simple swapping of HEX numbers so is not really difficult to implement.


I don't see why it should be such a surprise ? It might well be a very easy thing to do but I can't think of any other drum vsti's that do the same. I guess they went with the white as it's neutral. I don't care for the white either or the whole colour scheme to be honest I much preferred the old faders on the BFD2 mixer and the whole thing looked more solid

In my view it is a shame the the BFD2 kit page has been dumped in BFD3 despite many users (including myself) requesting that it be retained.


I miss it too and I was one of those who voted to keep it but as I said, for me at least it didn't serve any functional use.
It was more like giving up my teddy bear when I was 30, it took a while but I found I could sleep without it eventually

I must admit that I have not yet tried the v3 demo (I'm waiting for a current BFD2 issue to be resolved before I do - see the Exporting Grooves thread) but from what I have seen it is missing the nice kit piece images present on the BFD2 kit piece screen. :wink:


Yes, there is still a kit view but they got rid of the kit icons. I actually wanted to see the kit icons in the old kit view change in accordance to whatever kit piece was being loaded but realised it wasn't really that important. First and foremost I chose BFD2 over the competition because it just sounded so much better to my ears.
Thankfully that hasn't changed. :D

Steve
https://soundcloud.com/steve-corr

Scan UK 3XS Audio System
ASUS Prime Intel Z390-A
intel i9 10th gen 900k 3.7GHz
32GB Corsair DDR4 Vengeance LPX 2666MHz
5000GB SSD PM981 M.2 PCIe (OS)
500GB SSD drive for BFD Samples
Focusrite Scarlett 4i4
Windows 10

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purtington
Posts: 3181
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 9:37 am
Location: Bristol UK
Contact:

Postby purtington » Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:03 pm

gaheba wrote:
The problem is learning a whole new way of working and I don't want to deal with that if I can help it.


Jack, in all honesty the learning curve is not that intimidating if you just buckle up and jump in. If I can do it any monkey can - seriously. I am a complete bunny when it comes to computers and software but I still get my way around and it still
opens up creative possibilities for me and thats the fun bit! Right?

what does BFD3 really bring to the table to make me want to buy it and put up with a horrible gui - not a thing.


The groove editor!! Its awesome and for me is itself all on its lonesome worth the entry price! Drum rudiments! Still learning that bit but....what a step up from BFD2.

The GUI is expandable. On my 27" iMac I can stretch BFD3 pretty much right accross the whole width of the screen - which is just beautiful for working on grooves and drum tracks.

I did not like the gui either at first. Like the others above have said, the loss of the kit view was a huge disappointment for me (I had voted for its retention), however it is fast fading into the background as a dealbreaker. More important is the improved workflow of the new layout.

The browser (for grooves, kits and instruments, and presets) - much better than BFD2 - more immediate, accessible, navigable.

The sound: this is somewhat subjective, but for me when I listen to one of my own presets in BFD3 then listen to the same preset in BFD2, the latter sounds somewhat muffled. Its kind of subtle, but the sound of BFD2 seems to lack a presence and punch that BFD3 has. Just my impression, not saying its the truth or anything. However if you gave me a desert island choice, I would pick BFD3. Its not a question of processing either, as I rarely do any processing in the BFD2 mixer, although that may change now.

Then again anything I have to say negative makes no sense to the beta tester fanboys.


Jack, there is nothing wrong with a bit of criticism and voicing your concerns. I get the demo doesnt work for you. So why not point out the problems and limitations of the demo constructively without all the blaming and faultfinding and sniping? You have an opportunity to contribute something to the development of BFD3 with your unique viewpoint - so take it. Your concerns with the demo doesn't have to be about being or saying something negative, insulting, or demeaning about Fx and other users does it? Make what you have to say a contribution, an offer, rather than an expression of some upset you have.

FWIW, I was not a beta tester. I am however an unapologetic fan boy - of both BFD2 and BFD3! That doesnt mean I dont have issues at times or get grumpy about those issues. I am still a fanboy and I still have issues at times. I take no offense or insult from that accusation!

If there were only more honest people like me (reviewers especially) maybe companies would pay attention to the criticism. Maybe my fault is being too honest


Actually, I think the issue here was that you havent really been honest at all. If you were just straight about both what works and doesnt work for you, your concerns would quickly and easily gain an appreciative ear. And you wouldnt have to snipe at other users.
Just saying. :wink:

Gary.


Very well put Gary

And as for being a, "fan boy" Jack, when you start being derogatory in that way I'd like to think it's beneath you.

Yes I am a fan, and like Gary I'm out and I'm proud.

But the reason I'm such a, "fan boy" is because from the moment I heard BFD2 I thought it was by far the best sounding drum VST on the market and BFD3 has done nothing to change that fact.

If I truly felt the opposition was at least as good I wouldn't be such a big fan but for me at least it's not.
I have addictive drums and EZdrummer and some of the abbey road kits but I might as well not have them as they just don't get used any more.



Steve
https://soundcloud.com/steve-corr

Scan UK 3XS Audio System
ASUS Prime Intel Z390-A
intel i9 10th gen 900k 3.7GHz
32GB Corsair DDR4 Vengeance LPX 2666MHz
5000GB SSD PM981 M.2 PCIe (OS)
500GB SSD drive for BFD Samples
Focusrite Scarlett 4i4
Windows 10


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