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BFD3 - Is anyone else having a simply awful user experience?

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jackn2mpu
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Postby jackn2mpu » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:00 pm

doublestrokeroll wrote:

Do you even HAVE BFD3? What are you talking about with "it's a whole new program"? Cause from where I'm coming from I don't think they've changed it much at all. The layout is different that's for sure....easier in my opinion. But functionality is ALL there. Same as before. Everything I use is pretty much identical to BFD2. Fade and choke parameters, kit piece parameters, Engine settings, midi settings and adjustments, key mapping, groove editor, mixer...and on and on....Took me a while to find some stuff that wasn't where it used to be, but it's all still there.


If you read what I just wrote here and in previous posts I tried the BFD3 demo and found it wanting and problematic. Why should I spend money on a program that isn't working for me because of the reasons I cited? That's the whole point of demos, as flawed as the demo itself for BFD3 is - that one finds out whether the program is right for one's use or not.

There is precious little that's the same as BFD2. Layout is only a small part of it. Like I said I'm so used to the way things worked in BFD2 that BFD3 is a whole new program with a whole new set of muscle memory to learn (and undo from BFD2). Mixer is nowhere near the same as BFD2; ditto for being able to access kit piece parameters. And actually I could really care less about the mixer as I never used it in BFD2 so why should I have to look at it all the time in BFD3? Groove editor - never used it. Kit piece replacement is nowheres near as easy in BFD3 as it is in BFD2.

You like BFD3? Fine with me. But don't try and say because you like it others have to as well - doesn't cut it for me.

yeah - I may come across as blunt but then again that's the way I am - I tell the truth and if someone can't dig that then that's not my problem. Sugarcoat isn't in my vocabulary.

edit for formatting when I snipped stuff from previous post
Jack
Pro Tools 2019.6
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silhouette
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Postby silhouette » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:39 pm

jackn2mpu wrote:If you read what I just wrote here and in previous posts I tried the BFD3 demo and found it wanting and problematic. Why should I spend money on a program that isn't working for me because of the reasons I cited? That's the whole point of demos, as flawed as the demo itself for BFD3 is - that one finds out whether the program is right for one's use or not.

There is precious little that's the same as BFD2. Layout is only a small part of it. Like I said I'm so used to the way things worked in BFD2 that BFD3 is a whole new program with a whole new set of muscle memory to learn (and undo from BFD2). Mixer is nowhere near the same as BFD2; ditto for being able to access kit piece parameters. And actually I could really care less about the mixer as I never used it in BFD2 so why should I have to look at it all the time in BFD3? Groove editor - never used it. Kit piece replacement is nowheres near as easy in BFD3 as it is in BFD2.

You like BFD3? Fine with me. But don't try and say because you like it others have to as well - doesn't cut it for me.

yeah - I may come across as blunt but then again that's the way I am - I tell the truth and if someone can't dig that then that's not my problem. Sugarcoat isn't in my vocabulary.

edit for formatting when I snipped stuff from previous post




Actually BFD3 three has a lot more going for it than BFD2.
The mixer is so much more integral to the sound in BFD3. There are quite a lot more mic positions on the drums and there are a lot more ambient mics to mix. The standard BFD2 kits do not sound the same generally because of these extra options. If you don't use the mixer it is small wonder you are not happy with BFD3. Basically what you have is a really good drum room in this software. I have never been able to get such live sounding three dimensional drum sounds. You have to invest time in understanding how to use it properly.
I am not sure that the combative nature of this thread is helping to get this message over. If you want a more simple way of using drums fine, that is your decision. Maybe Studio Drummer is more your thing? However what Fxpansion has done with BFD3 is create is the most complete answer to studio drums that there is available at the moment.

doublestrokeroll
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Postby doublestrokeroll » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:53 pm

jackn2mpu wrote:
doublestrokeroll wrote:

Do you even HAVE BFD3? What are you talking about with "it's a whole new program"? Cause from where I'm coming from I don't think they've changed it much at all. The layout is different that's for sure....easier in my opinion. But functionality is ALL there. Same as before. Everything I use is pretty much identical to BFD2. Fade and choke parameters, kit piece parameters, Engine settings, midi settings and adjustments, key mapping, groove editor, mixer...and on and on....Took me a while to find some stuff that wasn't where it used to be, but it's all still there.


If you read what I just wrote here and in previous posts I tried the BFD3 demo and found it wanting and problematic. Why should I spend money on a program that isn't working for me because of the reasons I cited? That's the whole point of demos, as flawed as the demo itself for BFD3 is - that one finds out whether the program is right for one's use or not.

There is precious little that's the same as BFD2. Layout is only a small part of it. Like I said I'm so used to the way things worked in BFD2 that BFD3 is a whole new program with a whole new set of muscle memory to learn (and undo from BFD2). Mixer is nowhere near the same as BFD2; ditto for being able to access kit piece parameters. And actually I could really care less about the mixer as I never used it in BFD2 so why should I have to look at it all the time in BFD3? Groove editor - never used it. Kit piece replacement is nowheres near as easy in BFD3 as it is in BFD2.

You like BFD3? Fine with me. But don't try and say because you like it others have to as well - doesn't cut it for me.

yeah - I may come across as blunt but then again that's the way I am - I tell the truth and if someone can't dig that then that's not my problem. Sugarcoat isn't in my vocabulary.

edit for formatting when I snipped stuff from previous post


But it's not "problematic"......It's you.....BFD3 'works' fine. You're admitting you're just too lazy to get used to the new interface. And that's fine too. I don't have a problem with that. But when you use words like "problematic" you make it sound like there are inherent things WRONG with BFD3, when there aren't.

In the other thread as well you said it was problematic but again there never said WHAT was problematic aside from something about cymbal swells, which was answered for you by someone stating the demo version had more limited features than the full version. I think the other thing you were whining about was download speed or something....lol...like Fxpansion has any control over your part of the world's internet connection.

And I never said you or anyone else had to like it. That's just you recycling the stupid "kool aid" thing again and trying to pass it over to me. lol.

As you can see "sugarcoating" isn't in MY vocabulary as well. And I'm quite happy to go pointing out the flaws in your reasoning and call you out when you claim things in BFD3 don't work but really it's just you not LIKING features.

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jord
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Postby jord » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:29 am

jackn2mpu wrote:Kit piece replacement is nowheres near as easy in BFD3 as it is in BFD2.

You like BFD3? Fine with me. But don't try and say because you like it others have to as well - doesn't cut it for me.

yeah - I may come across as blunt but then again that's the way I am - I tell the truth and if someone can't dig that then that's not my problem. Sugarcoat isn't in my vocabulary.


You seriously have to be kidding me, Jack!!! Kit piece manipulation and replacement is as simple as dragging and dropping onto the grid from the browser on the side (which can follows every kit piece you select). Same goes for kit building and even keymap creation. It doesn't get any simpler than that and BFD2 offers nowhere near the speed and intuitiveness for this type of work.

Your statement above seriously sounds like all you did was launch the app long enough to say how much you dislike it to drive a wedge in between actually knowing how it works, and the only reason I'm leaning towards this statement is because I actually do believe you tell the truth... from your own point of view. And, when one or two people don't accept it, perhaps it's their problem... but when a bunch of people don't accept it, it's YOUR problem.

jord
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jackn2mpu
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Postby jackn2mpu » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:17 pm

jord wrote:
jackn2mpu wrote:Kit piece replacement is nowheres near as easy in BFD3 as it is in BFD2.

You like BFD3? Fine with me. But don't try and say because you like it others have to as well - doesn't cut it for me.

yeah - I may come across as blunt but then again that's the way I am - I tell the truth and if someone can't dig that then that's not my problem. Sugarcoat isn't in my vocabulary.


You seriously have to be kidding me, Jack!!! Kit piece manipulation and replacement is as simple as dragging and dropping onto the grid from the browser on the side (which can follows every kit piece you select). Same goes for kit building and even keymap creation. It doesn't get any simpler than that and BFD2 offers nowhere near the speed and intuitiveness for this type of work.

Your statement above seriously sounds like all you did was launch the app long enough to say how much you dislike it to drive a wedge in between actually knowing how it works, and the only reason I'm leaning towards this statement is because I actually do believe you tell the truth... from your own point of view. And, when one or two people don't accept it, perhaps it's their problem... but when a bunch of people don't accept it, it's YOUR problem.

jord
Kit piece selection to me was a LOT easier in BFD2 - all you had to do was to double click on a piece and up came the window to select it - no dragging and dropping. Faster as well. Keymap creation was not something I dealt with on a regular basis; as a matter of fact I've only done it twice in all the time I've had BFD2.

I worked with the demo for about a week trying to like what it brought to the table and guess what - not enough to make me want to buy it. Said it before and I'll say it again - if a bunch of people don't accept my point of view it's not my problem at all. I believe in honest reviews and if a product isn't right then I'll say as much. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me.
Jack
Pro Tools 2019.6
2012 Mac Pro cheesegrater, 3.46 GHz hex core cpu, 48 gig ram, OSX 10.13.6
BFD 3 and plenty more

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doublestrokeroll
Posts: 141
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Postby doublestrokeroll » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:22 pm

jackn2mpu wrote:
jord wrote:
jackn2mpu wrote:Kit piece replacement is nowheres near as easy in BFD3 as it is in BFD2.

You like BFD3? Fine with me. But don't try and say because you like it others have to as well - doesn't cut it for me.

yeah - I may come across as blunt but then again that's the way I am - I tell the truth and if someone can't dig that then that's not my problem. Sugarcoat isn't in my vocabulary.


You seriously have to be kidding me, Jack!!! Kit piece manipulation and replacement is as simple as dragging and dropping onto the grid from the browser on the side (which can follows every kit piece you select). Same goes for kit building and even keymap creation. It doesn't get any simpler than that and BFD2 offers nowhere near the speed and intuitiveness for this type of work.

Your statement above seriously sounds like all you did was launch the app long enough to say how much you dislike it to drive a wedge in between actually knowing how it works, and the only reason I'm leaning towards this statement is because I actually do believe you tell the truth... from your own point of view. And, when one or two people don't accept it, perhaps it's their problem... but when a bunch of people don't accept it, it's YOUR problem.

jord
Kit piece selection to me was a LOT easier in BFD2 - all you had to do was to double click on a piece and up came the window to select it - no dragging and dropping. Faster as well. Keymap creation was not something I dealt with on a regular basis; as a matter of fact I've only done it twice in all the time I've had BFD2.

I worked with the demo for about a week trying to like what it brought to the table and guess what - not enough to make me want to buy it. Said it before and I'll say it again - if a bunch of people don't accept my point of view it's not my problem at all. I believe in honest reviews and if a product isn't right then I'll say as much. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me.


You're getting closer. At least here you said "kit piece selection to me was a lot easier..."

See that is subjective. And a perfectly valid point.

But then you go and blow it at the end again when you say...

"I believe in honest reviews and if a product isn't right then....."

See THAT is implying there is something wrong with BFD3 in a technical sense. There isn't.

What you SHOULD have said was...

"I believe in honest reviews and if a product isn't right FOR ME then I'll say as much".

See? One's a subjective assessment and the other is a factual claim that is false....in short...a lie.

gaheba
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Postby gaheba » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:14 pm

Jack. BFD3 obviously doesnt float your boat. Fine. BFD2 does. Fine. Stick with what works for you. End of problem, no more "problematic" thingamajigs.
I had a couple of initial issues, but they seem to be sorted now and BFD3 works great for me. I had a far more terrible time and a bunch more issues with crashing and instablity with BFD2 when it was first released than I have had with BFD3 actually. But I loved what BFD2 promised so I stuck with it until most of the bugs and instablity were ironed out. Glad I stuck with it! Likewise, I am loving what BFD3 has to offer, and so I am sticking with it. In my experience, the Fx team delivers.

As for statements about "the truth". All you - and anyone else - has offered here is a subjective experience and a personal opinion about that experience. I start getting nervous around people who claim some hold over the "truth". You have not detailed anything that suggests instablity or bugginess or sloppy/incompetent coding. As far as I can tell, all the issues you raise are complaints that are workflow and aesthetic in nature, ie personal preference.

If you dont like it Jack do what I do. Move on. End your grief. Stop waiting for someone else to end it for you, which seems to be what you are doing right now. You really are not being self responsible for something here. You have lots of choices available: Jamstix (mac version coming), Superior/Ezdrummer, Strike (if avid still makes it), Sonoma is about to launch Drumcore 4, Addictive Drums, all the Native Instruments stuff, the stuff from Esounds… then there's drum machines, hell you could probably pick up a perfectly good working SR16 for only a few bucks these days, they were a great little machine, or something like a Boss DR880 they were ok too, but these machines can be somewhat one dimensional and you have to fart around with midi interfaces and such like which I personally dont get on with so I moved on….to BFD2…..and finally to BFD3! As well, there are endless libraries of drum loops, some of them giving very detailed and precise control over the drum mix, eg Drums on Demand, Discrete Drums, Smart Loops, Beta Monkee, geez, I could go on and on with all the choices available today. You could even drop PT, buy a mac and get logic for $200 and you get a very cool drummer with it!

Move on Jack. Take some responsiblity for your workflow and aesthetic sensiblities. And please……be happy with your choice.

jackn2mpu
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Postby jackn2mpu » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:06 pm

doublestrokeroll wrote:
jackn2mpu wrote:
jord wrote:
jackn2mpu wrote:Kit piece replacement is nowheres near as easy in BFD3 as it is in BFD2.

You like BFD3? Fine with me. But don't try and say because you like it others have to as well - doesn't cut it for me.

yeah - I may come across as blunt but then again that's the way I am - I tell the truth and if someone can't dig that then that's not my problem. Sugarcoat isn't in my vocabulary.


You seriously have to be kidding me, Jack!!! Kit piece manipulation and replacement is as simple as dragging and dropping onto the grid from the browser on the side (which can follows every kit piece you select). Same goes for kit building and even keymap creation. It doesn't get any simpler than that and BFD2 offers nowhere near the speed and intuitiveness for this type of work.

Your statement above seriously sounds like all you did was launch the app long enough to say how much you dislike it to drive a wedge in between actually knowing how it works, and the only reason I'm leaning towards this statement is because I actually do believe you tell the truth... from your own point of view. And, when one or two people don't accept it, perhaps it's their problem... but when a bunch of people don't accept it, it's YOUR problem.

jord
Kit piece selection to me was a LOT easier in BFD2 - all you had to do was to double click on a piece and up came the window to select it - no dragging and dropping. Faster as well. Keymap creation was not something I dealt with on a regular basis; as a matter of fact I've only done it twice in all the time I've had BFD2.

I worked with the demo for about a week trying to like what it brought to the table and guess what - not enough to make me want to buy it. Said it before and I'll say it again - if a bunch of people don't accept my point of view it's not my problem at all. I believe in honest reviews and if a product isn't right then I'll say as much. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me.


You're getting closer. At least here you said "kit piece selection to me was a lot easier..."

See that is subjective. And a perfectly valid point.

But then you go and blow it at the end again when you say...

"I believe in honest reviews and if a product isn't right then....."

See THAT is implying there is something wrong with BFD3 in a technical sense. There isn't.

What you SHOULD have said was...

"I believe in honest reviews and if a product isn't right FOR ME then I'll say as much".

See? One's a subjective assessment and the other is a factual claim that is false....in short...a lie.
I meant what I said and said what I meant. End of story.
Jack
Pro Tools 2019.6
2012 Mac Pro cheesegrater, 3.46 GHz hex core cpu, 48 gig ram, OSX 10.13.6
BFD 3 and plenty more

Qapla

Johnw123
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Postby Johnw123 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:39 am

I couldn't disagree more. Although BFD2 was easy to use and figure out BFD3 is far and away better and much easier to use. I'm not sure how they could have made is easier.

It loads kits faster. It has a simple library preview of drums. It has the mixer always in view and it sounds great.

It does not use the same work flow as BFD2 but so what. They found a better way to get the sound out that we are looking for. How is that and awful user experience? Its just the opposite.

andyjh
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Postby andyjh » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:56 am

Selecting a new kit piece in BFD3 is one process less than it was in BFD2.

BFD2 action:
double click kit piece (new screen opens)
select piece
double click to select

BFD3 action:
select piece from drum browser (that is always open on the same page)
double click to select

That makes BFD3 33% quicker and easier than BFD2.

I had a reluctant struggle to accept BFD3 over BFD2, mainly through some minor issues with some bfd2 kits that don't load quite right (that is issues with the bfd2 kit, and not BFD3 itself), but I needed to edit a bfd2 kit recently, and I needed to do that back in BFD2 to maintain it as a bfd2 kit, and what a shock to the system that was going back to BFD2 !

BFD2 now seems complex and muddled with constant page hoping and cluttered screens.

I couldn't wait to get back into BFD3 after that...

jackn2mpu
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Postby jackn2mpu » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:19 pm

andyjh wrote:Selecting a new kit piece in BFD3 is one process less than it was in BFD2.

BFD2 action:
double click kit piece (new screen opens)
select piece
double click to select

BFD3 action:
select piece from drum browser (that is always open on the same page)
double click to select

That makes BFD3 33% quicker and easier than BFD2.

I had a reluctant struggle to accept BFD3 over BFD2, mainly through some minor issues with some bfd2 kits that don't load quite right (that is issues with the bfd2 kit, and not BFD3 itself), but I needed to edit a bfd2 kit recently, and I needed to do that back in BFD2 to maintain it as a bfd2 kit, and what a shock to the system that was going back to BFD2 !

BFD2 now seems complex and muddled with constant page hoping and cluttered screens.

I couldn't wait to get back into BFD3 after that...
It's not one process less than BFD2 as you forgot having to mouse over to the browser to select a piece, not to mention dragging the piece to where you want it. Remember that I'm talking about replacing a kit piece, not inserting a new piece.

But if you like it - that's fine.
Jack
Pro Tools 2019.6
2012 Mac Pro cheesegrater, 3.46 GHz hex core cpu, 48 gig ram, OSX 10.13.6
BFD 3 and plenty more

Qapla

jackn2mpu
Posts: 270
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Postby jackn2mpu » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:23 pm

Johnw123 wrote:I couldn't disagree more. Although BFD2 was easy to use and figure out BFD3 is far and away better and much easier to use. I'm not sure how they could have made is easier.

It loads kits faster. It has a simple library preview of drums. It has the mixer always in view and it sounds great.

It does not use the same work flow as BFD2 but so what. They found a better way to get the sound out that we are looking for. How is that and awful user experience? Its just the opposite.
I don't want or need to see the mixer all the time because it's something I didn't use in BFD2. I bought out all pieces to their own track in Pro Tools. Ditto for overheads, ambient and room mics. I treat sampled drums like I would real drums - each to their own track as much as I can. That way I can continue working with sampled drums like I would a real drum kit.

If you like it then as my Klingon friends would say - Qapla!
Jack
Pro Tools 2019.6
2012 Mac Pro cheesegrater, 3.46 GHz hex core cpu, 48 gig ram, OSX 10.13.6
BFD 3 and plenty more

Qapla

Platinum Samples
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Postby Platinum Samples » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:27 pm

jackn2mpu wrote:It's not one process less than BFD2 as you forgot having to mouse over to the browser to select a piece, not to mention dragging the piece to where you want it. Remember that I'm talking about replacing a kit piece, not inserting a new piece.


I think you're missing something…????

Video: http://screencast.com/t/aDXsTFUPnR

You don't need to drag anything to load a kit piece.

(Edit: Looks like the video capture didn't catch the mouse clicks… Will do another video later)

Rail
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jackn2mpu
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Postby jackn2mpu » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:43 pm

Platinum Samples wrote:
jackn2mpu wrote:It's not one process less than BFD2 as you forgot having to mouse over to the browser to select a piece, not to mention dragging the piece to where you want it. Remember that I'm talking about replacing a kit piece, not inserting a new piece.


I think you're missing something…????

Video: http://screencast.com/t/aDXsTFUPnR

You don't need to drag anything to load a kit piece.

(Edit: Looks like the video capture didn't catch the mouse clicks… Will do another video later)

Rail
I was going by what Jord wrote above. And again remember I'm talking about replacing a kit piece, not putting a new one in the kit.
Jack
Pro Tools 2019.6
2012 Mac Pro cheesegrater, 3.46 GHz hex core cpu, 48 gig ram, OSX 10.13.6
BFD 3 and plenty more

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Platinum Samples
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Postby Platinum Samples » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:47 pm

jackn2mpu wrote:I was going by what Jord wrote above. And again remember I'm talking about replacing a kit piece, not putting a new one in the kit.


Here's a video with clicks shown…

I could have double clicked instead of clicking on the checkmarks BTW…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3-2Fr5YpqI

This shows me replacing kit pieces.

Rail
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