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Cypher2 - coming in 2016

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Angus_FX
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Cypher2 - coming in 2016

Postby Angus_FX » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:48 pm

Hi all,

I figure it's time to give you a bit of a progress update on Cypher2 & take a listen to some of its new capabilities...

https://soundcloud.com/fxpansion/cypher-2-early-demos

Headline features:
* Three new analogue filter models plus comb filter
* Six new shaper models including wavefolders
* Sine waveform on oscillators
* More flexible FM routing - Osc1 FMable from both 2 & 3
* Duo/tri-phonic mode for Odyssey-style melodic sync screams
* Dual Ramp generators
* Two LFOs each with 3-phase & quadrature outputs, and a sub-LFO
* Multi-shape envelopes (which output linear, exponential, cubic etc. shapes to the modulation system simultaneously)
* Tweakable analogue noise
* Much lower CPU usage than v1 -- for example, >32 voices playable at 8x oversampled in real-time on an i5-2500

And...:
* All the workflow & TransMod enhancements from Strobe2...
* All-vector, fully-scalable, retina-ready UI, choice of three colour themes
* Quick Presets & randomizer
* New browser, locks, MIDI learn..
* Euclid X/Y control, curves, keyzones
* MIDI Multidimensional Polyphonic Expression, to fully support ROLI Seaboard, Seaboard RISE, Roger Linn Linnstrument, KMI K-Board Pro 4 & Haken Continuum

... And:
* A handful of new insert FX (which will also be coming to Strobe2 in a free update)
* a more powerful sequencer/arpeggiator, to modulate all those lovely sound sources
* .. a few surprises not listed here!

cypher2-2024.png
cypher2-2024.png (128.88 KiB) Viewed 4508 times


If you own either Strobe2 or DCAM Synth Squad v1, you'll get a generous discount on this one.

We're accepting applications to beta-test at present, so if you're interested in helping out, drop me a line angus ~at~ fxpansion -dot- com.
-- Angus F. Hewlett - CEO - FXpansion --
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umfufu
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Re: Cypher2 - coming in 2016

Postby umfufu » Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:11 pm

YESSSSSSSS

MatoMat
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Re: Cypher2 - coming in 2016

Postby MatoMat » Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:37 am

Serious GAZ. :D

chilly7
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Re: Cypher2 - coming in 2016

Postby chilly7 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 6:18 pm

I remember i old Dcam Synth Squad if you change sample rate the speed of FM was altered. This was acknowledged bug by Fxpansion but they seid that fixing this bag will alter patches already made. So is this bag fixed now in the new version?
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Angus_FX
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Re: Cypher2 - coming in 2016

Postby Angus_FX » Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:32 pm

Hi Chilly7,

Can you send me an example patch which exhibits the bug?

IIRC: there were differences in some scenarios because of numerical drift, particularly when fine beat detuning was being used... I made a test build of v1 with an all-double-precision oscillator, which corrected those behaviours, but was too CPU expensive. Happy to take another look, although as we only run at 2x and above now (no more 1x), most of the differences are likely to be gone.

Hope this helps,
Angus.
-- Angus F. Hewlett - CEO - FXpansion --

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chilly7
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Re: Cypher2 - coming in 2016

Postby chilly7 » Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:17 pm

Angus_FX wrote:Hi Chilly7,

Can you send me an example patch which exhibits the bug?

IIRC: there were differences in some scenarios because of numerical drift, particularly when fine beat detuning was being used... I made a test build of v1 with an all-double-precision oscillator, which corrected those behaviours, but was too CPU expensive. Happy to take another look, although as we only run at 2x and above now (no more 1x), most of the differences are likely to be gone.

Hope this helps,
Angus.


Hi Angus.

It is very easy to replicate that bug. Send me 500$ to my bank account as Christam Gift. Then Offer me a free Dcam Synth Squad 2 and Tremor 2. :lol:
Then initialize the Init patch. Put volume of Osc 1 to 0 and Osc 2 to max. Then FM to max. And then play with native sample rates of song in DAW. Right now i use Studio One Pro v2. I tested 48 96 192 Khz sample rates. The speed of FM doubles with each sample rate. Then i tested at 192 Khz (At which i record.) real time from 1x to 2x oversampling and the same story. FM doubles it's speed. (I like that possibility to change speed of FM but not with native sample rate of song.) .
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Angus_FX
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Re: Cypher2 - coming in 2016

Postby Angus_FX » Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:09 pm

Aha - but the bug is not quite as you describe... :) Audibly, it's like an unstable decaying FM "twang" at the beginning of the note, yes? With the speed of the "twang" or beating depending on the sample rate?

The FM changes timbre at a different rate, but it's not the FM depth exactly. What you're hearing is more complicated than that. Here's the story...

Timbre of an FM'ed waveform depends heavily on the centre frequency of the two waves involved. Any time they're not perfectly in tune, you get beating. Sometimes that beating will be a kind of slow phasing, other times it's an audible frequency in its own right.

But FMing a wave can itself cause the centre frequency to deviate..! If there's any DC component whatsoever in the modulator signal, the carrier wave's effective centre frequency will shift & it will start to beat against the modulator. This is true even if the fundamental pitch of the two un-FMed waves is exactly the same.

Now Cypher has a tri-saw-pulse oscillator. There are two things we want in an oscillator (more of course, but these are key):

- Produce as little DC as possible

- Avoid clicks and pops at note-on when phase is reset

For these reasons, the oscillator has a DC filter in its output stage.

In v2, it's changed a bit, it actually has two DC filters, a more aggressive one for the FM path, and a gentle one for the audio output (don't want to lose all that lovely rich bass), but I can see this is still causing some issues.. have no fear, will investigate...

Basically it takes some time after note-on for the DC filter to compensate for everything the oscillator does; during this time, the modulator can shift the carrier's average pitch => beating!
-- Angus F. Hewlett - CEO - FXpansion --

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chilly7
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Re: Cypher2 - coming in 2016

Postby chilly7 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:40 pm

Thank you.
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Angus_FX
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Re: Cypher2 - coming in 2016

Postby Angus_FX » Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:57 pm

I've been able to compensate this behaviour for sample rate, but not get it to go away entirely.. in fact some of it seems inherent to thru-zero analog FM -- whatever I do with the DC filter, it takes some time for the oscillators to reach a stable phase-locked state - even if they both start at 0deg phase. But, at least the DC filter is now sample-rate-compensated, so the "twang" is the same regardless of oversampling.

To eliminate the behaviour entirely, I'd have to make the oscillators PM instead of FM (as PM is impervious to these drift effects), that's too big of a change.
-- Angus F. Hewlett - CEO - FXpansion --

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Synth Squad | BFD Eco

chilly7
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Re: Cypher2 - coming in 2016

Postby chilly7 » Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:03 pm

Any news on Cypher?

Ivochkin
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Re: Cypher2 - coming in 2016

Postby Ivochkin » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:05 am

How soon will it be released?

chilly7
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Re: Cypher2 - coming in 2016

Postby chilly7 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:38 pm

I might sugest Fxpansion has bug with different sample rates. Because at different sample rates sound is affected in a away it sould not be. The biggest problem can be seen with FM sounds in Cyper. To fix that bug need serious re done of software.
I might like cheneges this bug does to sound but it must not be dependent on sample rate but with separete controll.
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chilly7
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Re: Cypher2 - coming in 2016

Postby chilly7 » Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:05 pm

When Cypher will be relised?
It is so long time has passed.
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4damind
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Re: Cypher2 - coming in 2016

Postby 4damind » Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:09 am

Long time not heard something about Cypher2.
Has development stopped after Roli acquired FXpansion?

vespesian
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Re: Cypher2 - coming in 2016

Postby vespesian » Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:24 am

4damind wrote:Long time not heard something about Cypher2.
Has development stopped after Roli acquired FXpansion?


I was looking forward to this...but now, esp. with the buggy release of Geist2 and it's lack of related updates, I'm not so sure. :|


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